On the O-hat | Clan of the Angry Monkey (FFXI)

On the subject of the O.Hat

Submitted by sam on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 14:02.

Well, Cyc and I went out on a run this last weekend, and I can honestly now assess whether or not this will work as a Clan event.

To successfully beat this bastard, we will need a minimum of 10 level 70+ people. It is much preferable to have a full alliance of 14+ people because when we did it with only 10 people the battle took 30 minutes (it's possible, but it was really long).

Right now we easily have 10 (or more) people with jobs 70+, the only problem is that once people get to 70 they wind up getting gobbled by other HNMLSes. This means that we can never really count on them to help out with stuff like this. I don't mean to be nasty about this, I'm just stating the facts: Once you go to an HNMLS they demand so much of your time that you cannot reliably help out. (This, and other reasons, is why I personally will not be joining any HNMLS any time soon.)

I don't really see this changing, honestly. Thus far most of the people in our Clan who get to 70+ wind up leaving us and only return when they either need something or are trying to avoid the ugly politics that can be found in HNMLSes.

So, unless we can actually retain more people 70+, there's no way we will ever be able to really do these runs.

Vis Maior's Journeys
http://maior.samhart.net/

A-fucking-men

Submitted by ravenclaw on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 14:19.

{Word}

Many of you know that I was one of the mindless idiot recruits of an HNMLS for 6 or so months after I hit 70. I was no longer found to lurk in ClanAM, I didn't show up for events, and I generally ditched and neglected my friends and family in ClanAM.

Yes, that's right, I neglected the very people who got me where I was. The people who got me through most of my missions, who got me started on NM hunting, who I partied and leveled with.

And why did I do this? Because, like so many other people pre- (and even some post-) 70 I had this glitzy picture in my head of how cool an HNMLS must be. "God fights!", "Dynamis!", "HNMs!", man was I a putz.

Well, the reality of every single HNMLS on our server is that in order to really participate in these things you pretty much have to sign your life over to them. Sure, they will hold your hand through the CoP missions like a baby, or allow you to get moderately nice loot (though, certainly not as nice as one would hope) from HNMs or Dynamis runs, but they will demand so much of you in return.

I found that I was rearranging my personal life around my HNMLS. I became a slave to them, and I couldn't do anything else.

I went back wanting to level up THF, but couldn't find the time to do it. I wanted to go out with friends, but found I'd be kicked if I didn't show up to events. Fuck, I even missed a good friend of mine's 21st birthday celebration because it was my turn to watch for an HNM spawn.

After my bad experiences in my first HNMLS, I tried a second, only to find the second was even worse than the first. I was expected to show up for Dynamis runs that conflicted with my work schedule (I work evenings 4 days a week), and when I missed a couple of runs, I came back to find my pearl broken and name besmirched by the HNMLS leader.

I have now been through several HNMLSes (from the wannabe HNMLSes to the real thing) and have found in addition to the nasty practices I encountered there are even worse politics in them. They all fight! It's like they are all rival high school football teams vying for popularity!

I eventually wised up and left them all (and came and begged Sam to start one of his own lol)

The only advice I can give to the other people in our clan who are 70+ is, don't be like me. Don't get suckered into the fake HNMLS dream. Don't neglect your family in ClanAM like I did, because these are your real friends. Stick around and help out in ClanAM because, if you do, we can build our own group of 70+ people to do fun events.

Basically, don't be an HNMLS-dick!

RavenclawX/Ranger

On stuff..

Submitted by cyclonus on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 16:19.

OHAT:

I agree that given our current solid membership base, we will not be able to do this. Although, given 2 stunners, 2-3 very good WHMs and tanks, this is doable â€“ it will just take a very long time.

Low MP during the fight? No problem â€“ Paeon FTW!

HNMLSes:

I also tried the HNMLS thing out and only lasted a single day. The primary reasons have already been stated, but namely 1) I refuse to spend my play time camping or farming crap only to be labeled a â€œrecruitâ€ for 3 months and 2) Because I like the folks in ClanAM â€“ a lot. No drama, no crap, just a nice group of people â€“ who, get this, like to help outâ€¦

I do have a Dynamis shell, which meets only for Dynamis and no strings attached; free lot on AF2 if you can use it and all currency is sold off and proceeds are split. I have yet to attend a run, simply because another ClanAM member has not yet been given a pearl.

I suspect we will continue to loose high level players to HNMLSes and thatâ€™s fine with me. I would rather be amongst a core group of players whom I know arenâ€™t asshats.

I do, at times, find it very frustrating that I cannot obtain high end items (plus being a BRD, I canâ€™t do much alone). However, I just get over it and move on. If I spent a solid 2-3 months fishing and making gil, I could get my high end gear, like the manteel. There is a lot more to playing FFXI then â€œteh uberzz1 gEarzzorzz!!!1.â€

I sincerely hope that as ClanAM membership gets to higher levels, players continue to stay and help out. Itâ€™s what makes this game enjoyable â€“ at least for me.

Dynamis shell

Submitted by sam on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 17:00.

I do have a Dynamis shell, which meets only for Dynamis and no strings attached; free lot on AF2 if you can use it and all currency is sold off and proceeds are split. I have yet to attend a run, simply because another ClanAM member has not yet been given a pearl.

You know, in all honesty, that's kind of the way I think certain things like that should be run.

Basically, what I'd really be able to support is the following:

LSes for community/social purposes (some events, nothing strenuous. This is kind of the way I view ClanAM).
LSes set up strictly for certain events (e.g., all they do is Dynamis, or Garrison, or CoP missions, or whatever. Most of the time, the LS is dead. But during the events, it becomes active).

Do that, and I could whole-heartedly support another LS or two that met certain needs.

Vis Maior's Journeys

http://maior.samhart.net/

CLAN HNM LS Pearl

Submitted by Tamara on Mon, 02/20/2006 - 22:04.

I don't see a problem with a low-key HNM LS being built for Clan members. What folks complain about in HNM LS is the rigidity, the huge hours.

I do think, though, that for this proposal to work members joining the Clan HNM LS would HAVE TO BE PATIENT. It would be a Pearl whose membership would slowly grow, and initially would not do much. Also not many folks would be on it, most of the time. It would be equipped the evening of a HNM Event.

So who would join? Clan Members who are high-level and read on this web site; because here is where the HNM LS would really exist. There would be an event planned (like Dynamis) and it would be posted here. Equip your Pearl the night of the Event and see if enough were present to make it happen, or if reservations are required then you would count posts, in advance. If there are gil costs why spend the gil if you don't see enough posts to your HNM LS thread?

So why start a Pearl which will not do much for three or four months? So folks who want to join a low-key HNM LS have a place to go. As everyone now points out the choices are stay within the Clan and do zero HNM LS (because HNM LS wants 100%) or go with a HNM LS and do zero Clan (because HNM LS wants 100%). I would not mind a Clan HNM Pearl to grow into.

I think a some-evenings HNM Clan LS could work in conjunction with this Web Site; and the Clan Pearl would remain because that is where everyone meets when a HNM LS Event is not happening.

So instead of asking for members willing to dedicate 100% of their game time what Maior could ask for are those hi-level members willing to keep themselves updated on this web site. You say you will show up for an event, you post you will show up, the night of the HNM event you equip the Clan HNM Pearl.

I know I would prefer this proposed growth route to contemplating joining a non-Clan HNM Pearl which would attempt to consume my life.

Bah

Submitted by sam on Tue, 02/21/2006 - 15:10.

Now you sound like tabke/ravenclaw :-P

He wants me to make an HNMLS pearl that we "grow" into. I just never wanted to lead up a second LS... that sounds like a pain.

Well, if enough people want it and are willing to let it grow before expecting too much from it, I'll consider it more seriously.

Vis Maior's Journeys
http://maior.samhart.net/

Virtual Area

Submitted by Tamara on Tue, 02/21/2006 - 19:11.

There are virtual libraries and virtual department stores I say just make the HNM LS a virtual area on this server, just a link really. Folks go to the virtual HNM LS to discuss a HNM Event, the evening of the Event folks equip the HNM LS Pearl.

I think the HNM LS will begin slowly and eventually grow to some size. How big? - I don't know! But it will never be for folks who can't be bothered to visit the web because most of the time the Clan pearl is equipped.

Problem

Submitted by cyclonus on Tue, 02/21/2006 - 20:29.

A few things on the â€œgradualâ€ approach:

1) There is another LS that I am aware of that underwent a similar process â€“ the Avengers. They were an HNMLS for a while but that stopped after, from what I have been told, many melee jobs leaving. The simple fact is that, most players in the HNMLS scene are in a rush to accomplish everything (only to then bitch about the lack of content and boredom).

2) Taking the LS above as example, I see a possible similar issue with ClanAM. Although the core members are great people, a gradual change to an HNMLS will inevitably mean an influx of asshats and the like.

3) We lack high level tanks at the moment. See comment 2) above

4) I think a more appropriate term for the kind of LS that is being purposed is â€œa group of non-asshat players who do research, help one another out without always expecting something in return and do not want to spend all of their limited play time camping stupid shitâ€¦â€ or AGONAPWDRHOAOWAESIRADNWTSAOTLPTCSS LS for short (I think). Which we already are - this would mean doing the same thing, just against harder mobs.

Simply put, although I suspect there are many other high level players out there who a) cannot play 24/7 and b) arenâ€™t asshats, they are few and far between.

I think this warrants some discussion. Much planning and thought will have to go into this in order for it to be successful in the future.

Oh, and I got my coat!